I guess this question is centered around Linux. I am wanting to switch to Linux as my main operating system from windows. And just leave windows on some machine that's never on unless I'm playing a game. So I'm just wondering who exactly it is, that is reading all of this "open source" linux code, on all these hundreds of different distros. Who is reading it, and making sure that these companies (or groups, whoever) aren't just putting some means of spying in there? Richard Stalman has a video where he talks about Canonical doing it in ubuntu. They're not actually spying, but there was some kind of telemetry going on with the repository in Ubuntu. Can't remember the exact details.
Anyway, with the sheer number of distros out there, who is going to make sure that none of them are up to anything nefarious? I'm just wondering who exactly all these people are, that are reading the code and checking the changes in the code after every update. That's a lot of trust that we'd have to put into these people, and while I'm sure many of them are good, some may see dollar signs at some point. Or maybe they get pressured to just make a small change or leave open a back door. With windows we know its going on. But with Linux we have all these people telling us that is not happening.
I felt that this place is a much better place to ask than a Linux forum, as I find that they generally can't see beyond some kind of blind fanboyism that they have. Plus there are probably far less coders there, whereas here pretty much everyone is. So I thought maybe you guys might know something about who exactly reads all this code and checks it for evil deeds. I assume they don't have to read through every line of code that makes up the entire distro, each time there is an update. Or do they? Maybe you only have to check a certain, somewhat small area for the changes? But then what if they made changes that they didn't tell anyone about?
I just can't see this model being nearly as good as people think it is. That is, the model of open source, where programmers write it, and then an army of other programmers come along and read all of it, and report anything bad they find in the code. Such as something spying on you. Can someone please explain a bit about how this process works in reality? Seems too good to be true.
I don't like Linux, but on this question I would have to side with Linux. There are people looking over Linux code for spycode. I am not certain how many, but I am confident it is at least one. And it seems to me that the intersection of privacy freaks and Linux freaks is rather large, so I would not at all be surprised that it is greater than one.
How many people are looking over Windows code for spycode? None. Except maybe the guy making sure that there isn't Russian spycode in there interfering with the Microsoft spycode.
So I would have to say the probability of spycode is definitely lower on Linux.
Just curious on this one, but why don't you like Linux? I'm new to it myself, so I haven't really decided whether I like it or not. I used to love windows, but I haven't liked it much since Windows 7, which I consider to be their golden age.
As for the spycode, you've just got too many distros. I want to try out Zorin, and MX Linux. Zorin is made to imitate Windows 7, and MX linux has sort of replaced mint as the... well the "media darling" if you will. I tried mint and it reminded me too much of Windows XP. Which would have been really cool, about 12 years ago. I'd have have probably really apprecited it then. But now, I'll pass. Anyway it seems to me like any of these new flavor of the week distros (like Zorin and MX Linux) could have some spyware in there somewhere. And because they don't have all the eyeballs looking at the code like Ubuntu does, I suspect they could pull a fast one and maybe nobody would ever notice it.
(Mar-05-2019, 03:43 AM)bennylava Wrote: [ -> ]I just can't see this model being nearly as good as people think it is. That is, the model of open source, where programmers write it, and then an army of other programmers come along and read all of it, and report anything bad they find in the code.
Mint is "basically" Ubuntu with a different skin. Both are based on Debian. A lot of linux distros are. Someone creates their own linux by grabbing ubuntu (for example), stripping off things they dont like, adding things like a different desktop environment. Then its gets a fanbase for that as a default. Xubuntu, Lubuntu, XFCE, are all ubuntu with a different desktop environments. You could take Ubuntu and install xfce desktop environment and then you have Xubuntu. Except you can switch to which desktop environment you want then. A lot of new linux users dont realize this.
So while they might look like a
ton, they are all based off of a small amount. It reminds me of how much church denominations are
broken up.
I would agree with ichabod801. I would trust that some are looking over linux rather than what Windows has. You can look over any linux distro code you want (even down to the kernel), you cannot do the same to Windows. Thus why people trustt open sourced code over closed. You have the option to look at it.
If you are really freaked out by using other people's distro's.....you can always make your own with
Linux from Scratch. This would teach you how things work to look at code of other distros to find possible bugs/issues. Then you are trusting yourself, not someone else. But i would warn you to not do this first (especially if you have never even used linux).
Quote:Linux From Scratch (LFS) is a project that provides you with the steps necessary to build your own custom Linux system. There are a lot of reasons why somebody would want to install an LFS system. The question most people raise is "why go through all the hassle of manually installing a Linux system from scratch when you can just download an existing distribution like Debian or Redhat". That is a valid question which I hope to answer for you. The most important reason for LFS's existence is teaching people how a Linux system works internally. Building an LFS system teaches you about all that makes Linux tick, how things work together, and depend on each other. And most importantly, how to customize it to your own taste and needs.
(Mar-05-2019, 05:54 AM)bennylava Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious on this one, but why don't you like Linux?
It crashed more than Windows, I couldn't use all my hardware, the software quality was lower in many cases, and the updater drove me nuts. When you have to go to slashdot to figure out how to manually delete files so you can get system updates, there's something wrong with your system.
(Mar-02-2019, 09:52 PM)micseydel Wrote: [ -> ]I would agree with ichabod801. I would trust that some are looking over linux rather than what Windows has. You can look over any linux distro code you want (even down to the kernel), you cannot do the same to Windows. Thus why people trustt open sourced code over closed. You have the option to look at it.
If you are really freaked out by using other people's distro's.....you can always make your own with Linux from Scratch. This would teach you how things work to look at code of other distros to find possible bugs/issues. Then you are trusting yourself, not someone else. But i would warn you to
Yes but who are these people, exactly? Where are they posting the results of their read through of the OS? That word you used "trust" is the word that I don't like. I prefer verification to trust.
(Mar-05-2019, 03:08 PM)ichabod801 Wrote: [ -> ] (Mar-05-2019, 05:54 AM)bennylava Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious on this one, but why don't you like Linux?
It crashed more than Windows, I couldn't use all my hardware, the software quality was lower in many cases, and the updater drove me nuts.
I cut out some of your post and what's left were my issues as well. It also just felt... well lets just say you could tell it was free. Almost like even the biggest most used distros, didn't really see much attention when it comes to the level of polish and end user experience. It didn't have that same snap to it that windows has had since about halfway through the windows XP era. Everything felt slower, and more clunky. About every 4 years since 2001, I try out linux again. Some distro that looks fancy.
And they're slowly starting to catch up. They seem to be at the point now where I can tolerate it. As for the "spy freaks", I guess I'm one of them. I just don't think its any of these companys' business what I'm up to, nor the governments. I guess its just all on principle. And you'll get a lot farther in terms of applying that principle, on a linux machine than you would with windows. Of course there is a lot more to do besides that, but you should at least have the OS portion of your security squared away.
Should. Which as you can see, is the reason I've created this thread.
If there's a website somewhere where real people (with reputations) read through all the code and give it the OK, I'm not aware of it. Unless you have something like that, what assurance do you really have? The build your own linux thing does appeal to me. If nothing else I'm glad it exists to be a thorn in the side of "Them".
(Mar-05-2019, 10:14 PM)bennylava Wrote: [ -> ]I prefer verification to trust.
Then read the code yourself or never connect your computer to the internet.
(Mar-05-2019, 10:14 PM)bennylava Wrote: [ -> ]I prefer verification to trust.
This would be a good place to start. The kernel is the underlining software for
all linux distros. There is almost a million commits to scan through if you have that much time to waste. And that is just since it was put up on github.
Here is everyone who pull requested to the kernel (Those who fully understand it and have aided in its development). And there is about
25K forks of possible variants of it. In linux from scratch you can tweak the kernel to remove hardware not needed to speed the startup up for example.
Those are the people you would want to contact because they really know their
SH** stuff. They have tweaked the kernel to suit their own needs, and watched it develop. IF you really want exact details, the python forum is not the right place. Your going to have to ask the linux gurus on their forums, mailing lists, IRC, etc. You just have to learn to take their flack. Programmers in general give it and take it.
(Mar-05-2019, 03:08 PM)ichabod801 Wrote: [ -> ]It crashed more than Windows, I couldn't use all my hardware
When i used Arch Linux a lot i would tweak it and break it. I remember i had to put a hold on certain updates or it would break my system. And man those forums dont mess around. If you do not do your homework, they will let you know.
Quote:When i used Arch Linux a lot i would tweak it and break it. I remember i had to put a hold on certain updates or it would break my system. And man those forums don't mess around. If you do not do your homework, they will let you know.
Linux is very similar to Unix (better actually because it runs on most platforms and Unix was usually for one only). I first started using Unix at bell labs, then after on a large VAX system. When Linux first emerged I downloaded (BBS over phone modem) the kernal and started building my own package (not called a distribution, because I didn't distribute it). It was difficult because I had to rebuild the kernel every time I wanted to add a driver.
It didn't take long for a stable 'distro' was released by RedHat and I used Fedora for quite a while.
Bottom line is that I like Linux much more than windows, but really need both because I am a gamer, and a lot of the games were written for MS platform only (including my favorite).
I used OpenSuse for about a year, but had a lot of issues, then switched to Linux Mint. Now, I haven't even powered off my computer since about a month ago (when I added a new hard drive). I don't think my system has crashed once since the switch about 8 months ago.
(Mar-06-2019, 12:22 PM)Larz60+ Wrote: [ -> ]but really need both because I am a gamer
I will very excited the day i can throw out my windows desktop and switch 100% to linux. Its slowly happening, more and more games are being made for all major platforms. Some day...
