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Newbie have thoughts about logic
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Newbie have thoughts about logic
#21
(Sep-15-2021, 01:07 AM)sdd Wrote: Nobody starts counting with zero so it's unlogical to me.

Are you nobody? I suspect that like rest of us you were born 0 years old and not 1 year old. So you literally started with 0.

Like rest of us you probably measure distances between objects starting from 0 and not from 1 - if two objects are 1 meter apart is their distance 1 m (if counting from zero) or 2 m (if counting from 1).

I can only suggest to observe reality around you and think before making claims.
I'm not 'in'-sane. Indeed, I am so far 'out' of sane that you appear a tiny blip on the distant coast of sanity. Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy

Da Bishop: There's a dead bishop on the landing. I don't know who keeps bringing them in here. ....but society is to blame.
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#22
Please remember python has been around for 30 years now.
It has functioned well for some of the worlds most popular applications including:
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#23
(Sep-15-2021, 03:35 AM)perfringo Wrote:
(Sep-15-2021, 01:07 AM)sdd Wrote: Nobody starts counting with zero so it's unlogical to me.

Are you nobody? I suspect that like rest of us you were born 0 years old and not 1 year old. So you literally started with 0.

Like rest of us you probably measure distances between objects starting from 0 and not from 1 - if two objects are 1 meter apart is their distance 1 m (if counting from zero) or 2 m (if counting from 1).

I can only suggest to observe reality around you and think before making claims.
I don't agree with your logic. 0 is the starting point. As soon as you start moving away from that starting point you are on 1. My real starting point as a human being was when the sperm met the egg, not when I was born. A 1m distance starts with 0 yes but you don't count that. If you have 3 marbles in your hand and ask anyone to count them high, do you really think anyone would start by saying zero?? Would YOU? The starting point in a sentence is before the first letter, not the first letter. Finally, it seems you get offended by me questioning Python. I suggest you leave this thread in that case.
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#24
It sounds as though you wish to create your own language, and you are welcome to. Gather a team to handle the language design and probably a second team to start implementation. Decide whether you want an interpreter or a compiler, and have at it.

If you would like Python to modify based on your ideas, there is a procedure for that. Submit a PEP (Python Enhancement Proposal). Before doing so, I suggest you read some of the related PEPs at the Python website.

Starting with PEP-1 Purpose and Guidelines. After all, you are just trolling a bunch of Python supporters, not the people that control the language development.
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#25
(Sep-15-2021, 09:08 AM)Larz60+ Wrote: Please remember python has been around for 30 years now.
It has functioned well for some of the worlds most popular applications including:
A lot of things has functioned well for a long time in this world, that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement, or do you disagree on that? Is your view that Python is perfect? It is my understanding that Python is still evolving which is good. I try to find things in this language that can be improved. And making it easier to understand and learn is one form of improvement.
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#26
(Sep-15-2021, 11:37 AM)sdd Wrote: A lot of things has functioned well for a long time in this world, that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement, or do you disagree on that? Is your view that Python is perfect? It is my understanding that Python is still evolving which is good. I try to find things in this language that can be improved. And making it easier to understand and learn is one form of improvement.
Sure i think all agree that's improvement to Python over time is fine,but also can not do fundamentals changes that break all backward compatibility.
Python 2 to 3 was big thing and here it was necessary to break stuff to make python3 more modern.

There where 10000's lines written for and against adding new syntak := walrus operator 🐳
So it was Accepted in PEP 572 and added in Python 3.8.
Guido van Rossum was tired after all this discussion about this syntax change.
Guido Wrote:Now that PEP 572 is done, I don’t ever want to have to fight so hard for a
PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions.

So there is a lot going in back that you may now of yet to improve/optimize Python for the future.
Now that Guido have step back they did make a The Steering Council,
so this group will now have the final saying of what new stuff(PEP) that get Accepted into Python.
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#27
(Sep-15-2021, 03:11 AM)bowlofred Wrote: Both are discussed in this post:
http://python-history.blogspot.com/2013/...exing.html

That article and at least one that it links to are complicated. Here is a simpler explanation.

In languages such as C, the elements of an array are arranged sequentially in memory. If n is the size of each element, p the machine memory address of the beginning of the array and i a subscript then each element is at machine address p+i*n. Therefore the first element is at memory address p+0 therefore the subscripts begin at 0. Beginning at zero is the efficient way to communicate with the computer for languages compiled to machine code and other languages do the same even if (as in Python) they are interpreted or something like that.
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#28
(Sep-15-2021, 11:37 AM)sdd Wrote: that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement, or do you disagree on that
It is a matter of priorities.
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#29
(Sep-15-2021, 11:11 AM)sdd Wrote: I don't agree with your logic. 0 is the starting point. As soon as you start moving away from that starting point you are on 1. My real starting point as a human being was when the sperm met the egg, not when I was born. A 1m distance starts with 0 yes but you don't count that. If you have 3 marbles in your hand and ask anyone to count them high, do you really think anyone would start by saying zero?? Would YOU? The starting point in a sentence is before the first letter, not the first letter. Finally, it seems you get offended by me questioning Python. I suggest you leave this thread in that case.

Haven't you noticed that you arguing with yourself? You start with: 'Nobody starts counting with zero', then you say '0 is the starting point' and 'A 1m distance starts with 0'.

Let's try this marble example from the start: 'How many marbles are on the table?', you look at the table, count and answer 'Zero', I put one marble on the table, 'How many marbles are on the table?', 'One'. So yes, you start counting from zero :-). One can claim that starting from zero is un-natural, strange and whatnot but this doesn't mean it's not logical. There is logic out there whether you agree with it or not.

And no, I am not offended, just try'n nudge you towards realizing that your personal preferences aren't logic. Logic doesn't care what I or you think, prefer or believe. Actually I enjoy arguing. It helps think through what to say and your opponent will spotlight weaknesses of your arguments. Yummy...

Example of applying your logic: i understand your belief about your starting point as human being. This is very sensitive subject but I just following your logic: both Texas legislators and people who are against abortion ban are murderers/accomplishes of murderers - because any abortion is killing a human being regardless of fetus age. Is it what you wanted to say?

As part of learning process you could read Dijkstra's famous: Why numbering should start at zero
I'm not 'in'-sane. Indeed, I am so far 'out' of sane that you appear a tiny blip on the distant coast of sanity. Bucky Katt, Get Fuzzy

Da Bishop: There's a dead bishop on the landing. I don't know who keeps bringing them in here. ....but society is to blame.
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#30
While on the topic of zero, recommend a book by Charles Seife "Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea"
Talks about mankind before the concept of zero, how zero changed things. After all, Roman numerals did not have a zero... Yes, I'm a geek, but I really enjoyed the book.
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