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Hello. I am New. - Bad experience with social behavior in the German Forum
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Hello. I am New. - Bad experience with social behavior in the German Forum
#1
Sad 
Hello.

EDIT:
I hope that "Forum & Off Topic" is the right place.
If not, please move it to the bar.
Thanks.


I registered here today because the behavior of the leadership and users on the German Forum is absolutely unacceptable.
Since the operator does nothing about abusive, hateful, and indirectly insulting, constant rudeness and hostile trolling with the attempt ad hominem over old threads to belittle the thread opener, I am glad to find rules here that clearly prohibit this behavior.
There are no rules of conduct in the German forum.
NOTHING. Only "terms of use":
https://www.python-forum.de/ucp.php?mode=terms
That's all. No prohibition of antisocial behavior at all.
No thread with rules about how to treat each other.
There is not even abusive behavior under the report reasons (no "report abusive behavior" or similar).
It seems to be intentional that it is not possible to report such behavior.

I had the misfortune of forgetting I had a problem with these people 10 years ago before.
We can safely assume, that the owner of the German site knows about this antisocial behavior in the forum, and participates in it himself:
https://www.python-forum.de/impressum
Reports, even obvious very hostile behavior are simply closed.
For example, I reported the simple user "__deets__" for this "response":

"The dream of programming without prior knowledge, within reach! Dreamed here for 10 years already, 10 years spent with no serious attempt to approach the subject. Always cowering at the edges, staring enviously at the gatekeepers that stand between you and the breakthrough. Which, after all, is not for oneself, no, but for the good in the world!

But there the old final opponent raises his ugly head again - the hubris. "That such scripts don't already exist ready-made...", and all the other insinuations that it should actually be quite simple, that is, EVEN simpler, still simpler. It is a cross.

To put it bluntly: even here and now you don't get anywhere with your abstruse ideas, your disdain for the performance of others, and your inability to approach the subject of programming. Even if ChatGPT is impressive, it still needs expert guidance. It will be a few years before the world can do without those darn programmers standing between you and your goals. All you can do is wait, and dump your misery and frustration into the net in pretentious and condescending elaborations. Just like you always have."

I hope the clearly defamatory behavior is not diminished or relativized by the translation.

This behavior would be absolutely inadmissible under the clear rules here.
Shortly after the report, "__deets__" himself closed the report.
So __deets__ has moderator rights.



Is it OK for python-forum.io to have a part of "The official Python Community forums" behaving like this?
By recognizing this German website as something "official" and hosting it on your server, you have some moral responsibility regarding such things.
I doubt that you can change anything.
You should be consistent and remove them from your server.
Of course with a deadline.
If you can't find another German language forum as a replacement, why don't you open a German language category in this forum.
But I will try to write here in English.
Or you open a German forum, and ask German-speaking users to manage it. Under the zero hate rules of this forum.



Already 74min after posting at 10:43am came at 11:57am, this hateful "reply" from user (and secret moderator or admin) "__deets__"

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"The dream of programming without prior knowledge, within reach! Dreamed here for 10 years already, 10 years spent with no serious attempt to approach the subject. Always cowering at the edges, staring enviously at the gatekeepers that stand between you and the breakthrough. Which, after all, is not for oneself, no, but for the good in the world!

But there the old final opponent raises his ugly head again - the hubris. "That such scripts don't already exist ready-made...", and all the other insinuations that it should actually be quite simple, that is, EVEN simpler, still simpler. It is a cross.

To put it bluntly: even here and now you don't get anywhere with your abstruse ideas, your disdain for the performance of others, and your inability to approach the subject of programming. Even if ChatGPT is impressive, it still needs expert guidance. It will be a few years before the world can do without those darn programmers standing between you and your goals. All you can do is wait, and dump your misery and frustration into the net in pretentious and condescending elaborations. Just like you always have."
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This behavior is NEVER acceptable (here), but I still put the "triggering" post under here.

First, the rest of the replies:
___________________________________________________________________________
User "Noiseflorr" participated mobbing/trolling at 12:09 pm:
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"Hi,

yes, it's silly that even in 2022 an AI can't tell you how to program yourself or, better yet, that directly deploys a ready-made solution on a server and ideally also transfers you the costs for the first 12 months of hosting via PayPal or something.

Well, but eventually it will work out. Why don't you ask the AI what it would advise you to ask again, so you can get a better / more useful answer.

BTW: the answer "Django or Flask" you would also have gotten from the HI here in the forum, for that' you really don't need an AI. Plus the HI here in the forum could have told you in three sentences that you don't need Linux and you don't need a server to develop.

Greetings, noisefloor"

At 19:30 clock also "__blackjack__" gets into the bullying:

"Geez, here again now. In the Raspberry forum he is also just again. 😱 He is probably just too brilliant for this world, and we all do not see that. 🤡

Oh yeah 🐟."
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___________________________________________________________________________
Then at 8:14 p.m., "Noisefloor" again:
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"Hello,

yes, but the Raspi forum is about a random generator. Maybe the random generator is supposed to generate text and feed the AI, hoping that then something useful (for the TE) will come out of it?".

Greetings, noisefloor"
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___________________________________________________________________________
At 20:23 then again the secret moderator "__deets__":
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"Nah, the coincidence thing is about supposed psychokinesis. Absolute bullshit of course, but because the scientific method doesn't protect against individual scientists either cheating or succumbing to delusion (see Linus Pauling), he thinks it's relevant. I only saw through this post here that he has been searching for the holy grail of effortless programming learning for 10 years. It's absurd. If there had been even a modicum of real learning in all that time, the more trivial parts of his problems (reading out the RNG) would be done. But hey, that way you can rant about "the system" much nicer... we have people like that as customers, too. Claiming for years our software that certain problems. We have even offered to personally come by & observe that. There is then 🦗..."
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___________________________________________________________________________
At 21:17 "kbr" then wrote:
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"True: 10 years ago everything was already said. What could not have been learned in that time ..."
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Would such behavior be allowed in this forum here?




___________________________________________________________________________
And now my "crime":
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"Hello.

I have been experimenting with chat GPT.
When asked for a script like On Mundraub (.org) or earlier Rottenneighbor to mark and comment locations on a map, the questions were:
Which web framework should be used?
How should users be able to log in and submit complaints?
How should complaints be able to be seen by other users?
How should complaints be moderated?

It says "complaints" because Chat-GPT chose that word based on the example.
Even before it mentioned "Django or Flask".
So chose Django for once.

The other questions seem almost unnecessary.
Is there that much choice?
Normally you register on a website, and then you can post.
In the case of Mundraub/RN by setting a pin, selecting an icon and entering a text.
The last two questions seem unnecessary again.
Of course you should be able to see it on the map, and admin/moderators to moderate in an admin area.


"Pre-work".

Why or where do you have to install Django?
After all, the script is supposed to run in a webspace, not on your own computer.
And the default "pip install django" doesn't seem to be meant for the command line under Windows.
But nothing is mentioned there. And of course I don't have Linux on my computer.
Is a webspace with Python sufficient for testing?
Or do I have to have something local?
It sounds sometimes as if Chat-GPT knows exactly what you want, describes the functions of the example I mentioned before.
But it doesn't make it easy.


Has anyone ever successfully tried to create something similarly complex (not very complex, but not an age calculator either) with Chat-GPT?
Are there any "walkthroughs"?
Especially someone who can program could try this.
Without own programming or code changes, just take what Chat-GPT spits out.
Maybe try to think like a layman. So not DAU, but programming layman with ZERO knowledge.

It is really good when you don't need any programming knowledge. But how much knowledge do you need now....
Ready made php scripts I can install on webspace and create a database and include it during installation....

Also it would be good, if Chat-GPT would get its data about example websites like mouth robbery or RN not only from descriptive texts, but e.g. visits the website.
There is also AI that learns to play computer games. Old Jump&Run.
And if this is a service that no longer exists, with a link to a copy on Archive.org.


That there are not already such scripts ready...
There are forums and wikis in masses.
A script that is like a forum, but instead of categories a world map with address search or coordinate input could use many who do not know it today.
You can mark and comment everything. Bathing lakes, public meadows, gastronomy, secret tips for model railroaders, rare hardware etc..


Other possible attempt with Chat-GPT:
* Mediaplayer which is operated only by keypad.
Entering a three-digit number or number and Enter starts video or audio.
Before and after no display on the screen or even switching off the screen.
Pressing a key, records from the webcam as long as the key is pressed.

* Receiving and processing random numbers from a real random number generator like True RNG v3.0 or the chip of a modern Raspberry PI, and displaying them in different ways:
- Heads or tails, including counters of the distribution, possibly over certain selectable time period.
- Display of white noise as live image.
- Display of characters or words, but without any appearing all the time.
- Display of random numbers on a kind of "clock" of lights. Like Helmut Schmidt's random number generator.
- ...
For experiments like at PEAR in Princeton, but e.g. with potentially hundreds to thousands of participants via a livestream."
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So I was interested in how I can test the suggestions of Chat-GPT on a web space.
It would be a start of learning how to get naked code to work on a web space.
Is that "false"?


This was also a lie from __deets__:
"your disdain for the performance of others".

There are probably only a few professions that I cheer as a profession.
And programming is one of them. Not doctor and lawyer, I think they are overrated.
I have a very high opinion of the ability to program.
Even mentioning that it would be good if all children in elementary school should learn programming until high school graduation (like in Estonia), creates aggression in these people.
E.g. something like that is twisted to "disdain for the performance".

There is no real interest that as many people as possible learn programming. They are just unpopular competitors for these people.


Even though my question was not about learning.
But is such a question inadmissible or morally "reprehensible"?

I would like to learn programming.
And Python, according to my research, is the simplest language, and not outdated.
However, due to such behavior of the moderators, regular users and the owner, I don't see a good climate there even if I am seriously interested in learning.
These people are malicious.
Nobody should try to learn programming or ask for help there.
Children who see such behavior also learn that it is normal to beat up other people.


I may start here soon with a question post about the current best ways to learn Python.
The best interactive website or yet software or pay software.
Courses at an adult education center cost $200 for a few hours on a few evenings (possibly 5). Possibly even more, I googled the $200 (€200) years ago.
Also $200 is a lot for a non-profit institution.




Chat-GPT delivers Astonishing results, and even inspires experts (saw a YouTube video of the big German computer magazine "c't").
Even if it would not be possible now to get such a script and bring it online, another 20-30 years (Technological Singularity) and human programmers may really become obsolete.
Is this reprehensible?
It democratizes the possibilities of every citizen to implement their own ideas for websites, computer programs and apps.
Even without hiring expensive programmers to implement an idea, whose effort and cost may never be estimated with certainty.
Even poor and uneducated people should be able to implement their ideas.
What happens when you hire someone, you can see in the example of Facebook...
Primarily through education from elementary school to high school, but also through AIs that write software.


E.g. in the past, people never wanted to tell me the approximate effort of the examples at the end of my post.
Even that was called not a small effort in the current hate-speak.
I was accused of "disdain for the performance of others"." because I assume it is work of possibly (?) 5, 10, 20 Minutes with simple GUI.
Is that really so presumptuous?
Shouldn't it be possible to roughly estimate the effort?
Here is an example again:
* Receiving and processing random numbers from a real random number generator like True RNG v3.0 or the chip of a modern Raspberry PI, and displaying them in these ways:
- "50/50", including counters of the distribution, possibly over certain selectable time period. Direct display of ones and zeros right and left.
No conversion necessary.
- Display of white noise images as live video.
That's all. It would be nice to have a recording as video, but if necessary you can use a screen recorder.

It's a pity that something like this doesn't exist ready to use.
Not even a downloadable 50/50 distribution software that can use a real random generator as source.
I know random.org
But there you can't get a live distribution with e.g. one value per second or faster over e.g. 30, 60, 90s.
Real random numbers need real hardware.

I want to do the same what the physicist Helmut Schmidt did.
And scientists in Princeton over 28 years in the "PEAR program".
Is that reprehensible? Is that grounds for bullying and ad hominem doxing?
The taboo on these fringe science topics like paranormal phenomena is extreme in Germany. Many people who would never attack someone in a racist or homophobic way, who consider themselves "tolerant", could breathe fire and brimstone on the subject. You are outlawed, everyone is allowed to hit you (verbally), you get no help from moderators. Often they even take part in the bullying.
I have proof of indirectly insulting behavior by the WDR.
A malicious comment on a YouTube comment of mine.
WDR is one of the largest European TV stations. Public television in Germany. "ARD/ZDF/Deutschlandfunk" receive about $9Billion per year. WDR is part of ARD. Financed by compulsory fees. You have to pay €18.36 ($19,46 on this day) per month.

I have referred only to the video topic suitably to the more than 50 years of research of the University of Virginia with more than 4000 Elsevier papers to the reincarnation and a documentary series of the ARD (first German television, comparable with the BBC). The WDR is a subsidiary of the ARD!
There the channel operator (public law) attacks me, that would be "esoteric stuff" and questions this external data of a university and documentary (of the own parent company!), because I am an anonymous YouTube user. There can't be a more stupid ad-hominem.
By the way, you could watch this series (in the original "Dimension PSI") in English.
Search e.g. on Youtube for: 5th dimension documentary

6 episodes:
#1, Telekinesis
#2, Exorcism
#3, Thought transference
#4, Near Death Experience
#5, Reincarnation
#6, Ghosts

Further advice:
Third Eye Spies (FULL MOVIE)
(CC, ~2h)



Alone for the interest in this topic, the research in Princeton, at the CIA and Stanford, I am attacked, and ad hominem attacked at every question in the german python forum.
Even if I don't even mention the topic in the question.
Just the suspicion that I might want to address it, is enough.
These hateful people will mention it, and thus try to make me an "untouchable".
To spread the fear that anyone who dares to answer me in a friendly way and with information will himself be the focus of these bullies.
The climate in this forum is toxic.
Even if professionals would possibly never notice that.
As long as you don't mention paranormal phenomena (certainly including UFOs and aliens) as a software topic.
Then you are burned. The hatred you then face is your burn notice.


I will try to repeat the experiments in Princeton with viewers on Twitch and YouTube.
Because apparently (incomprehensibly) science has only ever done experiments with individuals.
What could be possible, if hundreds or thousands of people at the same time concentrate the same target?
E.g. that only head of head or tails appears.
The white noise image as a live sequence would be another method.
If there is no paranormal influence, structures or even images should NEVER appear.
E.g. if 10.000 spectators concentrate at the same time on the famous photo of Einstein.
What is morally reprehensible about that?
It does not even justify criticism.



Now you know my "morally reprehensible" interest.
If that's a problem, delete this post, and let me anonymize my name.
Or delete the account, and I re-register with anonymous name.
Reply
#2
I would suggest that you check Who is python-forum.io
If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself, Albert Einstein
How to Ask Questions The Smart Way: link and another link
Create MCV example
Debug small programs

Reply
#3
(Dec-21-2022, 01:33 PM)Tobias_Claren Wrote: I registered here today because the behavior of the leadership and users on the German Forum is absolutely unacceptable.
Since the operator does nothing about abusive, hateful, and indirectly insulting, constant rudeness and hostile trolling with the attempt ad hominem over old threads to belittle the thread opener, I am glad to find rules here that clearly prohibit this behavior.
We are not connect to Python-Forum.de in any way at all.
So if you have problem with Python-Forum.de,you have to take it up there nothing we can do about that.
Python.org list Forums where both us and Python-Forum.de are listed.
Python.org has nothing to with how these forums are operated ,the only link as advice.
metulburr likes this post
Reply
#4
It's not good style to insult the users in the German forum and then complain here.
Reply
#5
I think they attacked you because you are like «What? we're in 2022 and you don't have a turnkey solution to my problems?» People usually don't like this kind of complaints. They think that you want something but you are not willing to put in the effort to obtain it.

There is a simple solution if you want a program that does something and does not yet exist, and you don't want to learn programming, which is a long process: hire a programmer! or an entire team of developers! You pay, they work and they'll do what you want.
Reply
#6
As other have said. We are not affiliated with python-forum.de. And python-forum.de is not affiliated with python.org. So the only thing you really can do is not use it.

Since you speak English, I would just abandon that site and come here. We do have rules pertaining to how people are treated.
Help > Appropriate Conduct
Recommended Tutorials:
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