Learned Python Basics, what now?

[SamHobbs]

Is it possible to build a website with Python without the use of one of the Python Frameworks?

How to deploy with WSGI | Django documentation might help with that. I am interested in other descriptions of WSGI for executing Python. A good description of the original CGI is CGI - Common Gateway Interface in The World Wide Web Consortium web site. I have not looked yet but I am interested in finding the simplest sample of WSGI executing a Python script. Even if that is just for educational purposes I think it will help understand the others.

Short history CGI the old way did many understand that could not way be for web in future for Python.

Yes the original CGI is inefficient. The main problem is that it executes each web site in a separate process (in the server).

[SamHobbs]

I am learning very much about WSGI. Prior to a few minutes ago the descriptions of WSGI I have read say it is written in Python. See PEP 3333 -- Python Web Server Gateway Interface v1.0.1 | Python.org; WSGI is a specification and there are many implementations of it. Also see WSGI — WSGI.org; it seems to have many good resources. The article WSGI: Server Interface for Python | Toptal looks very useful.

[snippsat]

SamHobbs in general looking at WSGI specification and deeper dive into WSGI,
is mostly useful if thinking of making a framework and not for making a web-site/app.
It's good to know the history and why WSGI was necessary,
but as web developer in Python there is no need to know how eg Flask,Django implement the WSGI standard.

[SamHobbs]

SamHobbs in general looking at WSGI specification and deeper dive into WSGI,
is mostly useful if thinking of making a framework and not for making a web-site/app.
It's good to know the history and why WSGI was necessary,
but as web developer in Python there is no need to know how eg Flask,Django implement the WSGI standard.

muzikman asked about building a website using Python without using a Python Framework. Other than pure WSGI, has there been any other responses to that? I assumed that without a Framework means pure WSGI, am I wrong?

[snippsat]

I assumed that without a Framework means pure WSGI, am I wrong?

No you where not wrong,my answer was a little more about why WSGI specification you link to is not so useful for a making a web-site,
more if want to look into making a Framework.

[SamHobbs]

Okay sorry. Well I am learning a lot but unless muzikman asks for more I think I will leave things about WSGI here as they are so far.

[ndc85430]

I really like Web Scraping but is there much demand for it? Inserting the data into a CSV, Excel or DB.

I'm afraid I don't know, as scraping isn't something I'm particularly interested in. Having said that, libraries like BeautifulSoup are useful for more than just scraping pages. I'm currently writing a small web app for myself and the way I'm writing my automated tests to make sure the right stuff shows up on the pages is by using a library like that (I'm not doing this in Python, but rather Clojure and am using JSoup, which as you can probably tell does a similar thing to BeautifulSoup).

But I would at least need someone to go over my answer, don't you think?

Absolutely. Try things out for yourself first and then ask people for feedback. You'll learn so much this way. Good!

Is it possible to build a website with Python without the use of one of the Python Frameworks?

Why? Libraries are there to let you do the stuff you care about, while abstracting away the stuff you don't. Use them.

I do need to learn how to use Python with a database. So, any good courses you can recommend or tutorials?

SQL databases are still likely to be the most common, though there are others. The Python standard library has a module for interacting with the SQLite database which is a small, file based SQL database. If you've not written any SQL before, you might want to find a tutorial on that though I can't give any recommendations. The O'Reilly book Learning SQL is a good one if you want more depth.

[SamHobbs]

There is likely a big difference between what you want to do and what there is demand for. Which one do you really want to ask about?

Web scraping is only necessary when the owners of the data do not want the data to be shared easily. If they want to make it easily shared then they would provide a web service or API, whatever you want to call it. You should learn how to use web services and how to create them.

I am not sure what the market is like now but I assume that beginners still are much more likely to be hired for maintenance than new development. Employers want programmers that can fix and modify systems developed by others; sometimes the software has already been modified by many others. They often want someone that can clean up and/or fix messes. If you want a job then you need to be realistic.

Databases are sure important. Also for a job you need to be able to do systems the way that most developers do, not the way you want to. So learning something like Django would be important.

[muzikman]

There is likely a big difference between what you want to do and what there is demand for. Which one do you really want to ask about?

Web scraping is only necessary when the owners of the data do not want the data to be shared easily. If they want to make it easily shared then they would provide a web service or API, whatever you want to call it. You should learn how to use web services and how to create them.

I am not sure what the market is like now but I assume that beginners still are much more likely to be hired for maintenance than new development. Employers want programmers that can fix and modify systems developed by others; sometimes the software has already been modified by many others. They often want someone that can clean up and/or fix messes. If you want a job then you need to be realistic.

Databases are sure important. Also for a job you need to be able to do systems the way that most developers do, not the way you want to. So learning something like Django would be important.

As I mentioned, I started doing web development in 1998. I started with Cold Fusion and MS Access. Then, I evolved into classis ASP and SQL server. Then, MySQL, Postgress. My strengths are database design, SQL and I did a lot of .NET. Then I played around with PHP MVC frameworks such as Laravel. I had to take 10 years off from everything and stopped working as I came down with an illness that needs to be managed and I have restrictions. The last real job I had was a hybrid. .NET, SQL server and SEO. I am familiar with OOP, just not with Python.

The thing that confuses me the most are the many packages out there for Python and paths. I am pretty good and REST API consumption. I built a web site 8 years ago that was basically like a copy of IMDB. I consumed two APIs to retrieve the related data as PHP objects. If you're interested in seeing what it was like, go to the Wayback Machine.

I worked for a company called FirstPlace Software around 2004. They made a product called Web Position Gold. I'm not sure if any of you remember it. Those of you that are old enough might. It helped you check your rankings based on keywords in the major search engines at the time. I worked on the requests and responses to emulate a browser so the user wouldn't get blocked. Back then, we did it fine. It's more difficult now.

Anyway, I am 54 years old with MS. I am on disability here in the US and it pays next to nothing. I could get back into SEO but I really do not want to do that. I was also an affiliate marketer and made high six figures back in the day. Development was just a tool I needed. Then I got sick.



As for web, I really like the MVC pattern. I noticed that Django and Flash are somewhat similar. However, I am not sure if they have controllers. I will have to research it. Like a User controller that has methods for all user based actions. I looked into Flask and it seems as though, they don't have individual files for Users and such. I know they have a template system and routing but I don't know what they use for views. Can you create individual controllers (or what they would call it in Flask) for Users, Admins, etc? I looked at the file Structure of Flask and I really didn't get it. It seems that every path and function lives in app.py

What would you all say, which Python directions are in demand, in order of most to least? This is what is driving me crazy.


Maybe I will bush up on my HTML, SQL, CSS and try out Flask. With all of the CMS platforms out there, are building custom web sites still in demand?

[Danniel]

You can already go for a freelance or just make your portfolio on github better. I also recently started learning web scraping, but still when I am just learning it I cant USE it for my purposes.
My purpose is a usual live tracking of business competitors, they did well and as I understood, web scraping cant work without other basics..
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buran write Oct-10-2021, 07:47 PM:
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